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FW C1E_01458 - Enhanced support for bracketing update

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  • FW C1E_01458 - Enhanced support for bracketing update

    An enhanced support for bracketing was introduced in C1E_01458.

    Please share your bracketing settings in camera you use in order to see if something needs to be added to better suited for most cases.
    I'll guide here if there are questions about how and what to be set in order to match you your particular camera settings.


    Dorin

    ----------8<--------------------------------------

    C1E_01458
    [E:] accepts time as 1/T e.g. like 1/100 sec.
    Introducing the [M:] modifier which multiplies the [E:] for each image in set of [IMG] by a value from a given list
    e.g. [3 IMG]..[M:1,0.5,2][E:1/10 sec] will result in:
    E: 1/10 sec for 1st image, from 1*(1/10)
    E: 1/20 sec for 2nd image, from 0.5*(1/10)
    E: 1/5 sec for 3rd image, from 2*(1/10)

    For now this should be flexible enough to accommodate the bracketing sequences implemented in various cameras.
    Wizards for various settings are coming which will include also bracketing with terms like +,0,- and EV the camera uses.

    Addressed a situation when, at certain load of presets in UI, UI asks "enter a numeric value.."
    Addressed an issue about custom values have no leading "E:" or "W:" when loaded from presets.

    ----------8<--------------------------------------
    1. Mecha it possible.
    2. Mecha it easy.
    3. Mecha team up.

    4. ..

  • #2
    1/T is a great addition. It makes life much easier without need to calculating the time in seconds.
    The modifier is a good immediate solution for cameras which can't change bracketing order from [0,-,+]. I guess the comma separated format will be gone when wizard mode is ready.

    A note about exposure stops.
    A stop is a doubling or halving of the amount of light let in when taking a photo. It is the exponent (index or power) of 2.

    -2 stops = 2-2 = 1/4 = 0.25
    -1 stop = 2-1 = 1/2 = 0.5
    -2/3 stops = 2-0.67 = 0.63
    -1/2 stops = 2-0.5 = 0.71
    -1/3 stops = 2-0.33 = 0.80
    0 stop = 20 = 1
    1/3 stops = 20.33 = 1.26
    1/2 stops = 20.5 = 1.41
    2/3 stops = 20.67 = 1.59
    1 stop = 21 = 2
    2 stops = 22 = 4
    Last edited by nick fan; December 19, 2019, 08:56 AM.
    Fanotec
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    • #3
      It will not be gone, only good things in the latest update:)

      Users can use the comma separated modifier, without any fear that the setting saved will not work in the future.
      The wizard will only translate a more specific, camera like values, in coma separated ones (used internally).

      Dorin
      1. Mecha it possible.
      2. Mecha it easy.
      3. Mecha team up.

      4. ..

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      • #4
        For your reference, below is options available for Nikon D850.

        At the default setting of MTR > under > over (H), exposure, flash, and white balance bracketing are performed in the following order: the unmodified shot is taken first, followed by the shot with the lowest value, followed by the shot with the highest value. If Under > MTR > over (I) is selected, shooting will proceed in order from the lowest to the highest value.

        At default settings, the size of the increment can be chosen from 0.3 (1/3), 0.7 (2/3), 1, 2, and 3 EV. The bracketing programs with an increment of 0.3 (1/3) EV are listed below.
        0 0
        3 0/+0.3/+0.7
        3 0/–0.7/–0.3
        2 0/+0.3
        2 0/–0.3
        3 0/–0.3/+0.3
        5 0/–0.7/–0.3/+0.3/+0.7
        7 0/–1.0/–0.7/–0.3/+0.3/+0.7/+1.0
        9 0/–1.3/–1.0/–0.7/–0.3/+0.3/+0.7/+1.0/+1.3
        Note that for exposure increments of 2 EV or more, the maximum number of shots is 5; if a higher value was selected in Step 1, the number of shots will automatically be set to 5.
        Fanotec
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        • #5
          Thanks for the new addition of "M"!

          Will the values according to Nicks Table be selectable or should users remember all these settings? As most cameras work with EVs in third-steps this could be a list of the possible 11 values and if the user selects the needed EV-value and the Mecha uses the assigned multiplicator...


          Originally posted by nick fan View Post
          -2 stops = 2-2 = 1/4 = 0.25
          -1 stop = 2-1 = 1/2 = 0.5
          -2/3 stops = 2-0.67 = 0.63
          -1/2 stops = 2-0.5 = 0.71
          -1/3 stops = 2-0.33 = 0.80
          0 stop = 20 = 1
          1/3 stops = 20.33 = 1.26
          1/2 stops = 20.5 = 1.41
          2/3 stops = 20.67 = 1.59
          1 stop = 21 = 2
          2 stops = 22 = 4

          Comment


          • #6
            The M values can be saved in presets just like the other, and yes, the common used values will be added, for sure, ready to be selected from the list.

            Dorin
            1. Mecha it possible.
            2. Mecha it easy.
            3. Mecha team up.

            4. ..

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            • #7
              Can't wait for the wizard to come. I'm the Harry Potter generation and really need some magic in panorama photography. Also values on the Mecha should match the ones on the camera or we'll need to ask Hermione for all that stuff :-)

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              • #8
                I remember first thing I learned at Mahoutokoro in first week of school was you can do a lot of magic using some comma separated values,
                was true even after graduation!

                Just try it ;)
                1. Mecha it possible.
                2. Mecha it easy.
                3. Mecha team up.

                4. ..

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                • #9
                  All cameras have order: MTR > under > over.
                  Pro models have option of under > MTR > over.
                  I guess it suffice to support only these 2 options from the dropdown list.
                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Bracketing order: MTR > under > over
                  No. of Shots EV Steps Sequence (EV) Modifier Format
                  3 1 0,-1,1 M:1,0.5,2
                  3 2 0,-2,2 M:1,0.25,4
                  5 1 0,-2,-1,1,2 M:1,0.25,0.5,2,4
                  5 2 0,-4,-2,2,4 M:1,0.0625,0.25,4,16
                  ----------------- ----------- ------------------ ----------------------------
                  Bracketing order: under > MTR > over
                  No. of Shots EV Steps Sequence (EV) Modifier Format
                  3 1 -1,0,1 M:0.5,1,2
                  3 2 -2,0,2 M:0.25,1,4
                  5 1 -2,-1,0,1,2 M:0.25,0.5,1,2,4
                  5 2 -4,-2,0,2,4 M:0.0625,0.25,1,4,16
                  Last edited by nick fan; December 20, 2019, 07:48 AM.
                  Fanotec
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                  • #10
                    I'm still confused with the new "M"-variable. According to Nicks table (for a 5 image bracketing with 2EVs and -,0,+) should i enter just "4" as before and enter "5" as the number of images or must i now enter "-4,-2,0,2,4" for "M"?

                    When i asked for additional fields like "M" i would make things easier. Selecting "2 EVs" just tells the Mecha to use the multiplier "4", then i select the amount of images (5 in this case) and based on the direction in camera (which is mostly -,0,+) the Mecha just decides what to doo. If i now change the amount of images to "3" the Mecha would still know what to do.

                    But now it looks like i have to enter comma seperated values again as the examples already listed in the "M" dropdown. The help text also states:

                    Modifier of Exposure: Modifier of the Duration of shutter button signal, a list of multipliers, like 1,0.5,2 for normal, half and double exposure time in case of 3 IMG
                    Why did i underline the last part? Now i have to enter the values for 3 images. If in the next scene i like to shoot 5 images instead i have to modify "M" again, for 5 images, and for 7 images i again have to modify "M". But the amount of images is already entered in the Image field. Wouldn't it be much easier if "M" readys out this field and the mecha calculates the needed formula based on the selected amount of images and the EV-spacing?

                    English is not my native tongue so please excuse my poor pronunciation but i hope you understand what i try to say. Things should be easy. On the camera you select the amount of images, the spacing and the given direction. This should match the setting on the Mecha. Calculating the internal formula based on these values could be solved internally.
                    Last edited by msimons; December 20, 2019, 11:24 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Both ways work

                      you can use
                      M:1 and enter 4 as before
                      or
                      Have M: according with the number of images you'll shoot and set IMG accordingly


                      "M:" was just introduced,
                      it accepts now the list of multipliers for E:
                      I'm sure you see the big potential offered by this way which goes beyond EV 0,-,+ limitation,

                      M: will accept also EV values in list in next FW which will be published today, it will adjust the EV values from the number of IMG, so you'll use a generic M: with EV and will be need to change only the IMG for next scene.



                      1. Mecha it possible.
                      2. Mecha it easy.
                      3. Mecha team up.

                      4. ..

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                      • #12
                        But do we need multipliers at all if users could select the EV-spacings instead? There are steps of halfes and thirds in photography, selecting these instead of their mathematical equations and formulas would make things easier...

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                        • #13
                          The multipliers are not only for bracketing, though they can be used for any BRKT situation,

                          You'll have also the EV way today :)
                          1. Mecha it possible.
                          2. Mecha it easy.
                          3. Mecha team up.

                          4. ..

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                          • #14
                            A related thread I just posted
                            https://forum.nodalninja.com/forum/p...2019#post30748
                            1. Mecha it possible.
                            2. Mecha it easy.
                            3. Mecha team up.

                            4. ..

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                            • #15
                              Before Dorin manages to use the EV step designation in the modifier. Here is a list for copy and paste. Save it a as preset for future use. I ignore the less meaningful patterns.
                              .
                              Bracketing order: MTR > under > over
                              Pattern Modifier
                              3S 0.7 EV M:1,0.63,1.6
                              3S 1 EV M:1,0.5,2
                              3S 1.3 EV M:1,0.4,2.52
                              3S 1.7 EV M:1,0.32,3.19
                              3S 2 EV M:1,0.25,4
                              5S 0.7 EV M:1,0.4,0.63,1.6,2.52
                              5S 1 EV M:1,0.25,0.5,2,4
                              5S 1.3 EV M:1,0.16,0.4,2.52,6.37
                              5S 1.7 EV M:1,0.1,0.32,3.19,10.06
                              5S 2 EV M:1,0.07,0.25,4,16
                              7S 0.7 EV M:1,0.25,0.4,0.63,1.6,2.52,4
                              7S 1 EV M:1,0.13,0.25,0.5,2,4,8
                              7S 1.3 EV M:1,0.07,0.16,0.4,2.52,6.37,16
                              7S 1.7 EV M:1,0.04,0.1,0.32,3.19,10.06,32
                              7S 2 EV M:1,0.02,0.07,0.25,4,16,64
                              9S 0.7 EV M:1,0.16,0.25,0.4,0.63,1.6,2.52,4,6.37
                              9S 1 EV M:1,0.07,0.13,0.25,0.5,2,4,8,16
                              9S 1.3 EV M:1,0.03,0.07,0.16,0.4,2.52,6.37,16,40.23
                              9S 1.7 EV M:1,0.01,0.04,0.1,0.32,3.19,10.06,32,101.83
                              9S 2 EV M:1,0.01,0.02,0.07,0.25,4,16,64,256
                              .
                              value rounded up to 2 decimals
                              .
                              Bracketing order: under > MTR > over
                              Pattern Modifier
                              3S 0.7 EV M:0.63,1,1.6
                              3S 1 EV M:0.5,1,2
                              3S 1.3 EV M:0.4,1,2.52
                              3S 1.7 EV M:0.32,1,3.19
                              3S 2 EV M:0.25,1,4
                              5S 0.7 EV M:0.4,0.63,1,1.6,2.52
                              5S 1 EV M:0.25,0.5,1,2,4
                              5S 1.3 EV M:0.16,0.4,1,2.52,6.37
                              5S 1.7 EV M:0.1,0.32,1,3.19,10.06
                              5S 2 EV M:0.07,0.25,1,4,16
                              7S 0.7 EV M:0.25,0.4,0.63,1,1.6,2.52,4
                              7S 1 EV M:0.13,0.25,0.5,1,2,4,8
                              7S 1.3 EV M:0.07,0.16,0.4,1,2.52,6.37,16
                              7S 1.7 EV M:0.04,0.1,0.32,1,3.19,10.06,32
                              7S 2 EV M:0.02,0.07,0.25,1,4,16,64
                              9S 0.7 EV M:0.16,0.25,0.4,0.63,1,1.6,2.52,4,6.37
                              9S 1 EV M:0.07,0.13,0.25,0.5,1,2,4,8,16
                              9S 1.3 EV M:0.03,0.07,0.16,0.4,1,2.52,6.37,16,40.23
                              9S 1.7 EV M:0.01,0.04,0.1,0.32,1,3.19,10.06,32,101.83
                              9S 2 EV M:0.01,0.02,0.07,0.25,1,4,16,64,256
                              .
                              Here is a spreadsheet for 3 shots to 9 shots from 0.3 EV to 3EV.
                              https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OgaoKGrZ_t-J4B1X4oLGmAhypJQNpRtT/view?usp=sharing
                              Last edited by nick fan; December 21, 2019, 08:41 AM.
                              Fanotec
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